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Player Submitted Design Proposals (New Factions, Units, Campaigns Etc.)

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  • Player Submitted Design Proposals (New Factions, Units, Campaigns Etc.)

    Hello, having enjoyed both fleet packs so far, I still can't scratch the itch that I have for wanting a full third faction. So, to vent a little, I am creating this topic to propose my own ideas for a Siidim faction, a new unit for the Gaalsien, and faction reworks for Khaaneph and Soban to make them closer to full factions. Feel Free to discuss my ideas and add your own ideas. Maybe, if we are lucky, BBI will consider them.

    Siidim (Third Unique Faction and Campaign)
    It's been a few years after Captain Mashad's betrayal and the Kapisi's defeat of the K'Had Saajuk. Captain Mashad's decision was not made independently. How could it, no kiithid would ever act against their kiith-sa. This was but one action of a series made in secret over the years. After years of bullying and subjugating smaller kiith, and implanting the right people into the right places, the Siidim are ready. They have researched the many wrecks across the great desert and have built a small of fleet of powerful, networked carriers. This new fleet incorporates new technologies and displays a design sensibility different from the Naabal dominated Coalition. They have wrested away control over the Khar-Toba site and the Taiidan Ion Cannon.

  • #2
    From a design perspective, I have made several decisions for the Siidim. For one, their fleet at all levels except for the basic vehicle class, is represented by walkers. My reasons for such are fairly simple. I approached it from the perspective that walkers represent a visual style wholly different from the crawlers of the Coalition/Soban and the hovering machines of the Gaalsien/Khaaneph. I am justifying it lore wise, with the notion that Siidim knowledge of hover tech is too poor to adequately carry the armor and ordinance they want. As a result, their army is the slowest in the game and built to be defensive (they are built to be an immovable line of force around the Khar Toba site). Their mobility therefore is primarily handled by what is their carrier’s primary power shunt and faction quirk. The “carry-all” system (yep, Dune, the spice must flow), which I will talk more about later. Another faction quirk I want worked in, is the shear fanaticism of the Siidim belief that they are Saajuk’s chosen. The Siidim’s desperation to ascend from Kharak has left them willing to incorporate stratagems that are flat out suicidal for the individual but tactically efficient for the Kiith. Not to mention weapon systems seemingly focused on “purifying” their enemies with intense heat.

    The campaign against the Siidim, is represented as a game map with map points representing territories as missions similar to Dawn of War Dark Crusade’s campaign. Using your chosen faction, you conquer enough territories until you can take, retake or defend the Khar-Toba. Choosing Soban will replace the Coalition and has the same starting point, they can’t fight one another. This means the campaign will only have 4 factions at play, as Soban and Coalition are allied. Coalition/Soban victory results in destruction of Taiidan Ion Cannon to preserve canon with Homeworld 1.

    Ascension Class Carrier – The Siidim carrier is a hexapodal, lumbering beast. It however incorporates a new tactical innovation never seen on Kharak. The “Carry-all”. On the carrier’s back is two sections that can field a carryall. Each carry-all has to be individually constructed and takes up two of the Carrier’s heavy aircraft spots. Much smaller than the landers fielded by the coalition, the carry-alls are tied wirelessly to their home carrier’s power system. This represents one of the Carrier’s power shunts. Based on how much power you place into the carryall, determines how many and how heavy the units (up to cruisers) it can carry. Also tied to the carrier’s power systems are the carrier’s networked logistics systems with other carriers of its class. This is the strength of the Siidim’s new military, the ability for other carriers off map to support each other. In game, this represents the faction’s production method, on its own the carrier has one queue that can be used to build any unit up to cruisers. However, it can send build orders to off map carriers for basic and armored vehicles. These vehicles are then brought to a chosen drop site by non-owned carry-alls. The ability to call these off map carry-all drops are tied to a timer. Onboard weapon systems include Flame-projectors in replacement of Point Defense Guns, lacking the range but devastating in their ability to overload enemy units’ radiators. Causing them to rapidly degenerate in the hot Kharakian desert. In addition to the standard defense missiles fielded by other factions, all Siidim Carriers are equipped with beacon payloaded missiles interfaced with the Taiidan Ion Cannon. This orbital weapon represents their tactical weapon counter to Cruise Missiles, Hypersonic Missile Salvos and Microwave Emitters.


    • #3
      Carry-all – Aerial unit, limit of two, tied to carrier power shunt. Can carry Cruisers and other units across the map. Unowned networked carry-alls from offmap carriers can ship in units as a supplement to production method.

      Salvage Engineer armored vehicle class – Walker unit. The resource collector of the Siidim. Is a larger armored vehicle rather than basic vehicle class. Takes longer to build and more expensive. Larger size is for onboard repair equipment as unit represents Siidim repair ability (Siidim do not have Gaalsien self-repair or Coalition Support Cruisers). Units individually take up the 2 resource slots on a point.

      Defense-Field Baserunner – Walker, wheeled vehicle hybrid. In wheeled mode, baserunner has comparable speed to other factions. Can deploy to walker-mode to field newly designed defense-field technology (recovered near Taiidan Carrier wreck) to offer shielding to own and allied units. No Siidim baserunners were recovered post conflict. Technology deemed lost (for canon purposes).

      Missile Trike basic vehicle class – A three wheeled trike armed with anti-air missiles. Provides early anti-air capability and is the faction’s sole lethal option against aircraft. They have a heavier air-defense unit which will be talked about later but it only prevents aircraft-based damage.

      Shrapnel Cannon Quad basic vehicle class – Tracked (4 track units) vehicle, tracks can move in opposing directions allowing vehicle to orient itself in combat without having to move backward or forward (like a tank basically). Armed with short-ranged “shotgun” type weapon. Slower than LAVs or Sandskimmers. More damage, you will have you to micromanage your LAVs and Sandskimmers against these vehicles, or they will die.

      Incendiary Mortar Howitzer armored vehicle class – Walker artillery unit. Armed with long ranged cannon. Siidim do not field Cruisers with artillery weaponry. Has active ability to fire incendiary mortars for wide area lingering damage, but with less direct damage. You will need to mass these to compare with Siege and Artillery Cruiser dps.

      Ranged LASER Platform armored vehicle class – Walker unit. Siidim do not field land based railguns. Their analog fields a weapon that looks a lot like the Boeing YAL-1 airborne laser. Higher damage potential (lacks penetration) and range than other railguns. However, damage is done over time and line of sight will need to be consistently maintained for effectiveness. Fog of War is their enemy.

      Flame Tank armored vehicle class – Walker unit. Armed with flamethrowers, comparable to AAVs and Assault Ships. Less range for damage potential. Capable of suppression.

      “Kamikaze” Fighter aerial vehicle class – Ornithopter (yes I like Dune) flight vehicle. Armed with only autocannons, this vehicle has the lowest basic attack damage of all aerial strike craft. Researching the onboard explosives tech however, will allow you to sacrifice these units (and their pilots) as they divebomb enemies and explode.

      Gauss Bomber/Gunship – Aerial unit, limit of 4. The only unit in the Siidim arsenal to carry a railgun. Ranged attacker. This unit has a change in its flight behavior in that setting a strike will cause the unit to stay there. The unit will not return to the carrier unless commanded or if it runs out of ammo. Carries a limited number of rail-shots.

      Emplacement Cruiser (support option 1) – Walker unit. Can be used as a resource point. Allows basic and armored vehicle classes (including Salvage Engineer) to be emplaced into cruiser increasing their armor. Defensive unit. Idea heavily based off Beta walls from Grey Goo. Haven’t decided if I prefer this unit or the next one as Siidim Support Cruiser.

      Defense Field Cruiser (support option 2) – Walker unit. Can be used as a resource point. Same ability as baserunner but up armored. Replacement idea for emplacement cruiser.

      Incineration Cruiser – Walker unit. Armored cruiser armed with a heavy plasma lance that vents energy from onboard reactor. Causes lingering flame damage. Absolutely devastating to anything if it gets closed to. With that “if” being the question of the day, this beast is slow, needs a carry-all. No secondary weapons at all. Has an active detonate reactor ability that costs RUs where the unit can be sacrificed for a large explosion (smaller area of effect than Coalition Cruise missile).

      LASER Defense Cruiser – Walker Unit. Ranged unit armed with several laser weapons that again looks like the Boeing aerial laser system. Also armed with two larger shrapnel cannons for close support. Main function is passive nonlethal anti-air, as laser weapons will disrupt guidance on all missiles shot near the cruiser’s area of effect. Potentially can disrupt Carrier missile based tactical weapons.


      • #4
        Khaaneph (new units and tactical weapon)
        As much as I do enjoy the two sub-factions developed for the game, I was left with the sensation that more could have been done to make them more like full-character factions. So I started thinking about new units that could be given to each faction. Maintaining the tech base shared with the Coalition/Gaalsien while furthering the differences. Optimally, I would like to see not a single unit be unaltered compared to its origin.

        Chaff/Disruption Bomb carrier tactical weapon – I was somewhat bothered that the Khaaneph’s carrier doesn’t have a weapon that can be fired anywhere on the map like the other factions. Understanding that their primary attack is the Carrer’s shuntable missile system, I would give them a weapon that can’t destroy anything but provides serious debuffs while working synergistically with their mobility fields. Deep in the desert, the Khaaneph have found the technology to produce a smart nano-machine based substance that can be rapidly dispersed into the air that greatly interferes with sensors and machine functioning. This substance is weaponized into a payload for a missile that airbursts over a target. This substance covers a large dispersal area. Within the area of effect, all enemy units will suffer minor caustic damage in addition to debuffs on their line of sight, movement speed and maximum health. The movement speed and health debuffs linger as status effects even upon leaving the cloud, but units will regain their line of sight. They will however, remain viable targets for mobility enhanced Khaaneph raiders until the effect wears off.


        • #5
          Ambush Skimmers (replaces sandskimmers) – Much the same as the original sandskimmers, but equipped with entrenching equipment. Instead of the sandskimmer raiding upgrade, you research an entrenchment upgrade. At the cost of the original max speed, these new units gain an active ability to dig themselves into the sands of the desert. Burying themselves from view to be invisible to all enemies. Allowing you to set traps with them and escape from fire.

          Flak Ship (replaces nothing) – A hovering flak 88mm straight out of WWII. Also the HW2 flak frigate reborn. An anti-air unit that fires air bursting rounds. Arguably, functionally better than other factions’ AA units. However, it has absolutely no method to engage ground units, not even with active abilities.

          Modified Missile Ship (replaces missile ship) - Similar to a smaller Khaaneph Siege Cruiser. Trades AA ability for direct fire missiles against ground targets. Loses original’s active ability.

          Assault Gauss Harpoon (replaces assault railguns) – Capture unit. Repurposes the triple barrels of the Assault Railgun to fire cable tied harpoons into target. Targets hit by harpoons slow down under normal conditions in addition to piercing damage. Active ability will initiate a status bar as crew board enemy vessel by the attached cables. Status bar rate is affected by number of harpoon units at work. Once status bar is filled, the unit is captured.

          Shadow Assault Ship (replaces assault ship) – Khaaneph Assault Ships are armed with the same smoke system as the Shadowrunner to allow for retreats.

          EMP Bomber (replaces precision bomber) – Maintains the quirk of targeting single units with hefty damage. Now has the quirk of freezing units for raider units to perform the coup de grace.

          Stealth Fighter (replaces interceptor) – Trades speed and damage ability for ability to not be seen on sensors manager or as quickly by units. AA will still engage, but not as quickly as you would like. Alternatively, this could be a Soban replacement for the Hammer fighter.

          Sand Torpedo Cruiser (replaces honor guard cruiser) - Ranged/armored hybrid cruiser. Armed with high powered torpedoes equipped with Augers. These torpedoes travel under the sand and have a light homing ability. Secondary weapons are net launchers that can ensnare lighter targets for other units to attack.
          Last edited by Kyle756; 03-05-2016, 12:26 PM.


          • #6
            Soban (new units)
            Combat Salvager (replaces salvager) – Due to the heavily militarized nature of the Soban, all Salvagers are equipped with very light machine guns. Not particularly effective at anything, but supplementary to resource defense and nice to have.

            Modified LAVs (replaces LAVs) – Seemingly, in complete defiance of the better judgement of the Manaan who designed the thing. The Soban have modified the LAV’s engine package. Instead of being able to allow for a burst of speed, the extra power is now used to carry slightly larger bore gun. Increased damage, but can’t use the original’s active ability.


            • #7
              HEAT Missile Truck basic vehicle class (replaces nothing) – A rather simple rugged truck armed with High Explosive Anti-Tank Missiles. Light anti-armor class option, absolutely worthless against anything else, including cruisers.

              L.B.C. Large Bore Cannon armored class vehicle (replaces nothing) – Tracked intermediate vehicle between an AAV and a vista-class railgun. Designed for Soban Commanders with a taste for more tactical flexibility. Doesn’t have the same range or penetration of a railgun, nor the suppression of the AAV. Active ability switches ammunition between High Explosive and Armor Piercing for switching effectiveness between handling armored vehicles or basic vehicles. It’s a basic single cannon tank, the game really doesn’t have one. Can you say tank rush?

              Marine Dropship (replaces Gunship) - Aerial tilt-rotor (basically an Osprey), capture unit. The old marine frigate (Captain Soban will be proud) makes its return from Homeworld 2. Limit of 2 craft. Better than most capture units (I would like to see the science runner and its hack ability make it to skirmish). This aerial unit hovers over, than boards enemy units, so highly trained Soban Marines eliminate the crew and take control of the vessel. Flight behavior is similar to Siidim Gauss Bombers, it will only return to the carrier when you order it to. Includes a light autocannon and a one use rocket salvo active ability (must be reloaded at carrier) for harassing lightly armored craft.

              Next-Gen S’Jet Bomber Prototype (replaces Bomber) – The Expedition guide refers to the Coalition Bomber as the oldest aircraft in service. It mentions something to the effect of the bomber’s replacements will be field tested. I say the Soban should be the one to field test the prototype. Limit of 4. Abilities and characteristics are so far undecided but perhaps faster and costlier than the Coalition Bomber.

              Soban do not field Assault Cruisers (nothing replaces it) – Even though not a lot has been said on the matter. I feel like the assault cruisers exclusively belong to the S’Jet expedition. I haven’t come up with any replacement ideas. However, if I did, it would be a tracked crawler. Maybe the Soban should field both Battlecruiser designs instead. The expedition guide does in fact refer to the original as a Sobani design.


              • #8
                Gaalsien (new cruiser unit)
                Admittedly, my reasons for this one are rooted in OCD. Basically, I am somewhat irritated by the Coalition having a Gaalsien tech unit (the infamous Assault Cruiser). So, for the sake of one to one parity, I would give them a new tracked cruiser. The lore being that the Gaalsien were hit hard after their defeat in Deserts of Kharak, and they are forced to field older mothballed units. The indirect attack of this cruiser makes its lack of mobility rather irrelevant as well. Alternatively, this unit could also be given to the Khaaneph to add to their flavor.


                • #9
                  Minelayer Cruiser – Tracked crawler cruiser. An older design being refielded by the Gaalsien to bolster defenses, this unit’s technology is highly similar to the Coalition. Temporarily equipped with disposable rocket pods to allow safe landing out of the Gaalsien’s hovering carriers. Meant to fill in an old Homeworld unit type not represented in Deserts of Kharak. Lays mines, could also be given passive AA, seeing as how the Gaalsien have been lacking in this since debuffs on the Honor Guard Cruiser.

                  Wow, finally got done. The forum system was real finicky transferring all of this from word. I can finally sleep now, can't wait to see what other people come up with.
                  Last edited by Kyle756; 03-05-2016, 01:03 AM.


                  • #10
                    Finally got around to the whole read... it was well worth it!

                    There are a lot of ideas here I support a lot. The basic idea of a standalone Siidim faction is the big one... I'm very enthusiastic about it. The Bore Cannon and the Incendiary Mortar sound like a lot of fun, although an incendiary area attack would have to be moderated substantially in order to not be an unfairly effective anti-resourcing weapon, I guess. I had at one point proposed a flak AA unit myself, so I'm 100% behind that too. I also really like the idea of the Khaaneph using some rather simplistic physical weaponry like large nets and cabled harpoons to limit the mobility of enemy units - mobility seems like a big thing to them - it's interesting to think that being the best at it could in part mean being able to make everyone else worse.

                    There are other ideas that I struggle with though. Some of the weapons seem a bit forced I guess... the Sand Torpedo for instance throws me, because the Khaaneph already have effective air ordinance, and so I don't really know why they would need to design a subterranean torpedo. It's not the least to say that I wouldn't like to see the Honor Cruiser in the Khaaneph fleet replaced by something else... that's the thing I want most from the game right now actually, lol... but it seems like they could just have a large, conventional aerial missile. Also the idea to fix the peculiarity of the 'Coalition' Assault Cruiser by giving the Gaalsien a pseudo-Coalition crawler seems like going about the solution the hard way - after all, do two wrongs make a right?

                    Execution of the Siidim is something I'd debate too. I don't know if I'd personally rule-out legs necessarily, but I lean heavily in that direction. No one can argue the idea that if power-efficient hover technology were developed it would be incredibly effective. We don't have that yet, but what we do have is a long history of tracked and wheeled vehicles. Mechanical legs are no longer out of the question, but when I ask myself, "would we ever consider making real-world legged combat vehicles?" I always return to the counter-questions, "why would we bother?" and "what can legged vehicles do that wheeled/tracked vehicles can't do faster, more efficiently, more reliably?" Homeworld doesn't strike me as an environment where things should be different for differences' own sake; going legs begs some concrete reasoning.

                    The other thing is, and this is also a matter purely of personal taste... I'd much prefer to see the Siidim retooled into a faction as a kind of retcon... a means of giving the Sakala's militia force its own character in the campaign that you would then also get to enjoy in MP. And while I do like and support your idea of aiming to make every unit in every faction at least somewhat different from each of its counterparts, I think that because the Siidim grew up in the North alongside (and to some degree likely as part of) the Coalition, it's hard for me to imagine that they would really be that different from their neighbors. I would propose that, if staples like rail guns (and even maybe the tracked/wheeled propulsion) are to be entirely absent in a faction, it should probably be reserved for the Paktu. Being SO DANG FAR from anyone friendly, they are easily the most likely of all the allied Kiith to have the most drastically different units and technology.

                    Anyway, sorry to have little really to contribute to the conversation other than some agreement and some nit-picking, but this is all I have right now, and I'd rather say something than nothing, since you obviously put an incredible amount of thought into this and it should be conversed about!


                    • #11
                      Very nice ideas. The ones that stood out the most for me are the Khaaneph Ambush Skimmers, and the Soban Marine Dropship. Both of those suggestions bring a new dynamic to gameplay, and are totally fitting for the style of each faction. On the topic of Ambush Skimmers, I think they would have to be "revealed" by probes and scanners to maintain balance. But damn that is such a cool idea.

                      I would also like to see the Khaaneph have the HGC replaced with a Heavy Assault Cruiser. Its basically an Assault Cruiser armed with heavy caliber assault railguns. This would emphasize the hit-and-run nature of the faction, and solve the HGC issue that many have.

                      On the topic of Sidiim, I kind of agree with doci7. Walkers just dont seem right to me. At least not for a faction so closely tied to the Northern Coalition. I do think a renegade Sidiim faction would be awesome, but in my mind they would function as more of a Coalition variant fleet.


                      • #12
                        I promise to read everything in the next days.
                        For the moment, I think the next faction or subfaction is HRAAL (or similar writing), which, as far as I remember it's a company, not a Kiith. I have to go back and read about it. At least, it's the last badge left in DoK.


                        • #13
                          Thanks for responding. I have noticed that the community is apprehensive to the walker idea. In truth, I have approached many of these ideas from the Command and Conquer school of design for the sake of visual flavor. That's why some of the ideas, like the sand torpedo, might seem different for the sake of difference. Although, I would imagine one of the benefits of the sand torpedo would be a visual stealth element. I was definitely thinking along the lines of; what haven't we seen before and what would look really cool in combat?

                          Still, I have to say, you have to be real careful in using "realism" as a goal when designing elements to a sci-fi universe. Mainly, because this concept can be both too constraining and inconsistent in application. For instance, in regards to the cruiser class vessels we have for the coalition, these vessels are far too massive to actually function in the desert environment in which we see them. Although they take a lot of inspiration from the shuttle crawler, the shuttle crawler is still significantly smaller (yet it almost weighs 3000 tons), incredibly slow and can only function on flat paved ground. In regards to our Coalition Cruisers, the amount of mechanical work necessary to get these things to move at the rates we see them, means they would be producing phenomenal amounts of waste heat. Combine that with the natural heat of Kharak, and you come to the grim reality that the majority of their bulk and energy consumption needs to be dedicated towards heat pumps and radiators. Wouldn't be any room left for crew or weapon systems. I do believe the tread bases are far too small to support their weight as well.

                          Hover technology is an open question because we haven't received a lot of lore in regards to how they work. If they are like traditional hover technology, where they are floating on air cushions. Then the cruiser class vessels would have to generate such air flow to propel their mass, that each unit would basically be a hurricane generator. You wouldn't be able to turn them on without creating an instant and severe sand storm. Case and point, please watch this video of the effects of thrust from a taking off passenger plane (a significantly less massive vehicle) on people on a beach.
                          Granted, BBI could still have another idea for how their hover pods work, but barring any actual science, it would be magic in the guise of technobabble.

                          I think there is some confusion on how the walkers would work as well. These walkers wouldn't be like star wars with overly long legs or be built out of gears and hydraulics. Using traditional gearing and hydraulics would be far too complex of a method for transferring power from an engine to a walker's motile force. If this is the approach, you would be better off using treads and wheels. However, a proper walker would look towards nature and apply bionics. Specifically, this would entail mimicking the mechanical actions of muscle groups. A theoretical method of doing this would be to use Piezoelectric materials. A piezoelectric material is such that when mechanical stress is applied to it, it produces an electric charge. However, the vice versa is also true that when you apply an electrical charge the material will be under mechanical stress (it constricts). Once you understand this, you can create "muscle groups" out of this material. When you apply electricity from your power train, these groups working in coordinated action will produce usable work. It has been demonstrated multiple times in a lab environment that these technologies are far more energy efficient than traditional methods of mobility. In addition to this, you no longer have the need of building infrastructure like roads as the walkers are fairly all terrain. The main design problems come from designing a control system that can adequately coordinate the system and from finding cost efficient piezoelectric materials that can handle the mechanical loads. Regardless, the technology is promising and the US military has been putting a fair bit of money into its development.

                          I do however understand, that if this produces too much of a visual clash with the game's art design, than this would be sufficient reason to not go down this route.
                          Last edited by Kyle756; 17-05-2016, 07:47 PM.


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kyle756 View Post
                            I do however understand, that if this produces too much of a visual clash with the game's art design, than this would be sufficient reason to not go down this route.
                            I guess when it comes right down to it, that's probably my biggest worry, yeah. It's really fascinating to learn about piezoelectric materials and the idea of mechanical 'muscle-groups', but visually, it's probably even harder to imagine something that organic in shape and function propelling large vehicles. The vehicles themselves would probably have to appear pretty organic to match. With Gaalsien units currently being about the curviest things we've seen in the Homeworld verse, anything beyond that seems fairly likely to clash visually. But I'm still speaking here only about the limits of my imagination. Suffice it to say the exact implementation of the legs would make worlds of difference...


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by doci7 View Post

                              The vehicles themselves would probably have to appear pretty organic to match. With Gaalsien units currently being about the curviest things we've seen in the Homeworld verse, anything beyond that seems fairly likely to clash visually. But I'm still speaking here only about the limits of my imagination. Suffice it to say the exact implementation of the legs would make worlds of difference...
                              The underlying "muscle groups" would be the method by which they work in lore. However, you could still sheath the legs in armor to go for a more boxy mechanical look, so they wouldn't look too organic. In essence, I believe this is how Battletech treats its mechs.

                              In regards to visualizing the legs as pseudo-organic, the Metal Gear games have pretty cool implementation of artificial muscle.
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                              There are also the tanks from Ghost in the Shell. (This is closer to how I would visualize a walker in Homeworld)
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                              Last edited by Kyle756; 18-05-2016, 06:40 PM.