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  • Multiplayer achievements?

    Hi guys, first time posting in your forums, I want to say great work on getting the Homeworld IP and saving it from being forgotten in time, the homeworld series has been my favourite franchise from childhood and the amount of hours ive accumulated in HW1, HWC and HW2 back on their respective cd's well, lets just say I burnt through a few cd drivers. lol
    Now that homeworld has a new home i'll be keeping a tab on you guys for any more games and content coming out for this series!!!!

    Any who to the point, why did you guys decide on soooooooo many multiplayer achievements for DoK? I love doing achievements don't get me wrong but the majority of them are unobtainable these days, 7 of them no one has ever achieved?! and the 43 remainder have less than 0.5 completion rate.
    Could you please consider removing them? they contribute nothing to the game (as most achievements don't) apart from possible customers might see the game as unfinishable or impossibly difficult. Not to mention the loss of sales of the players with OCD and fellow achievement hunters.
    It didn't stop me from buying the game regardless but for the sake of us fanatics who like to "complete" our games with realistic expectations, these achievements are a mountain that no one is able to climb.
    Hope you consider my request thoughtfully.

    Thank you!

  • #2
    Thanks for the feedback! I will look into the state of the multiplayer achievements and whether it is possible to get them modified easily.

    Cheers,

    Iain

    Comment


    • #3
      Can you provide a list of the achievements you feel are not achievable?

      Cheers,

      Iain

      Comment


      • #4
        The only achievements that are slightly unreasonable are the Total Annihilation ones, simply because no one plays that mode and doing 100 Total Annihilation games vs the AI is a pain to say the least. The rest are completely reasonable to get if you play Multiplayer regularly. The low rates of completion come from the fact that most of the people that purchased the game did so for single player, and does not reflect the completion rate among multiplayer fans.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Ian,
          Thank you for your quick response!
          After looking at the list of achievements, the global completion rate and the player base currently playing multiplayer, anything with over 100 wins with any particular faction
          is unfeasible.

          Retrieve 100 artifacts for each respective race:
          Multiplayer: Artifact Retrieval Master Khaaneph
          Multiplayer: Artifact Retrieval Master Soban
          Multiplayer: Artifact Retrieval Master Gaalsien
          Multiplayer: Artifact Retrieval Master Coalition

          Retrieve 500 artificats for each respective race:
          Multiplayer: Artifact Hunter 500 Khaaneph
          Multiplayer: Artifact Hunter 500 Soban
          Multiplayer: Artifact Hunter 500 Gaalsien
          Multiplayer: Artifact Hunter 500 Coalition

          Winning 100 games for each respective race:
          Multiplayer: Annihilation Master Soban
          Multiplayer: Annihilation Master Khaaneph
          Multiplayer: Annihilation Master Coalition
          Multiplayer: Annihilation Master Gaalsien

          Winning 100 games for each respective race:
          Multiplayer: Carrier Annihilation Master Soban
          Multiplayer: Carrier Annihilation Master Khaaneph
          Multiplayer: Carrier Annihilation Master Coalition
          Multiplayer: Carrier Annihilation Master Gaalsien

          These 16 alone are unobtainable due to the player base being so small and having to organise games through steam groups and forums.
          With that being said, I've attempted to auto search matches several times a day at various times through the last month of my holiday and after 7 - 10 minutes of searching I could not find a game,
          as I said the player base is small so to have multiplayer matches it requires pre match organising with people (friends list) or groups you are apart of, that makes the auto search feature non essential and nearly
          impossible to find a game, if you were fortunate enough to find one game, there is a 50% chance of you winning which means obtaining higher ranks Gold, Platinum and Diamond impossible.

          These auto ranked match achievements are not obtainable. Only 2 of them have 0.4% of the entire player base with it (Bronze achievements) and the remainder have 0.1%

          Multiplayer: 1 v 1 - Bronze
          Multiplayer: 1 v 1 - Silver
          Multiplayer: 1 v 1 - Gold
          Multiplayer: 1 v 1 - Platinum
          Multiplayer: 1 v 1 - Diamond
          Multiplayer: 1 v 1 - 5 Stars

          Multiplayer: 2 v 2 - Bronze
          Multiplayer: 2 v 2 - Silver
          Multiplayer: 2 v 2 - Gold
          Multiplayer: 2 v 2 - Platinum
          Multiplayer: 2 v 2 - Diamond
          Multiplayer: 2 v 2 - 5 Stars

          Multiplayer: 3 v 3 - Bronze
          Multiplayer: 3 v 3 - Silver
          Multiplayer: 3 v 3 - Gold
          Multiplayer: 3 v 3 - Platinum
          Multiplayer: 3 v 3 - Diamond
          Multiplayer: 3 v 3 - 5 Stars

          That's 34 achievements with extremely low completion rates and are no longer obtainable without extreme organising and luck to find people in your time zone and having similar availability to you.
          Wining 10 games with each faction is fair, it is doable even with the small player base and 50 artifact retrievals can be done in a reasonable amount of games.

          I believe a game of this magnitude and player base; a large percentage being homeworld fans that loved the concept of playing the prequel to the space trilogy, needs to cater to the fans and their ability
          to "finish" a game. If this game was sold solely as a single player I would of gladly paid the full amount for it regardless, the multiplayer is a nice touch that gives people an opportunity to compete in this type of homeworld styled environment, making the achievements reasonable and non time demanding will allow players to enjoy the multiplayer for what it is without feeling overwhelmed by the amount of time
          and dedication that is impossible now to complete.

          I hope you developers will consider the request seriously as I believe it will open up the game to many more players. I bought the game knowing I would never attain 100% with how low populated the game is, but the single player and skirmish mode sold it for me, it would be nice if the multiplayer was not so demanding.
          Last edited by EnderWiggin; 16-01-2017, 01:49 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            All you have to do is look enough to know where to find players to get the multiplayer achievements. All the factions, artifact and annihilation related achievements can be gathered by playing against other players.

            There are many ways to find active players to achieve the multiplayer, and even the ladder goals. Here are some:

            Play with the Devs on January 20th - Queue on automatch to have your chance to face the BBI devs in 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 matches. It is also a good way to develop community's habit of playing automatch and get your ranking settled.

            Add every single player on the Sajuuk's Legacy Steam Group - This group by far contains the most active players on DoK, and it has more than 400 players on it. Add the ones more active and play games with them. : http://steamcommunity.com/groups/sajuukslegacy

            Join The biggest community Hub outside steam to find more players - The major community Hub is the unofficial discord server listed on the subreddits of Homeworld and Deserts of Kharak. There you will not only find the guys on the very top of the Ladder (AGameAnx), but also a lot of players with all set of skills, from newbies to gimmicky to strong players.

            By joining these groups you will get more actie on multiplayer and get your achievements done faster. In the last months I got 2 achievements and I have very little time to play the game.

            Comment


            • #7
              If you were to modify these Achievements to become achievable instead of removing them what number values would you put on them?

              Retrieve 100 artifacts for each respective race:
              Multiplayer: Artifact Retrieval Master Khaaneph
              Multiplayer: Artifact Retrieval Master Soban
              Multiplayer: Artifact Retrieval Master Gaalsien
              Multiplayer: Artifact Retrieval Master Coalition

              Retrieve 500 artificats for each respective race:
              Multiplayer: Artifact Hunter 500 Khaaneph
              Multiplayer: Artifact Hunter 500 Soban
              Multiplayer: Artifact Hunter 500 Gaalsien
              Multiplayer: Artifact Hunter 500 Coalition

              Winning 100 games for each respective race:
              Multiplayer: Annihilation Master Soban
              Multiplayer: Annihilation Master Khaaneph
              Multiplayer: Annihilation Master Coalition
              Multiplayer: Annihilation Master Gaalsien

              Winning 100 games for each respective race:
              Multiplayer: Carrier Annihilation Master Soban
              Multiplayer: Carrier Annihilation Master Khaaneph
              Multiplayer: Carrier Annihilation Master Coalition
              Multiplayer: Carrier Annihilation Master Gaalsien

              Cheers,

              Iain

              Comment


              • #8
                Winning 100 games for each respective race in Annihilation games: Should at most be lowered to 25 games

                Winning 100 games for each respective race in Carrier Annihilation games: Again 25 games at most

                Retrieve 100 artefacts for each respective race: 25 at the most.

                Retrieve 500 artificats for each respective race: 50 at most.

                Sinistro, the group you mentioned MAY have that many people in it, however how many are actively playing? 10? 20? GURANTEED no more than that, I check the lobby's daily, I try auto search, there is no one playing, I might find 2 or 3 people in the player lobby but they are inactive, speaking to them but having received no response?

                The achievements do have to be feasible. Winning 100 carrier annihilation games PER faction, that's 400 wins alone, not to mention you might lose on average 2 out of 3 games? maybe more or maybe less, that requires you to play 1200 games just for 8 achievements. Then rinse and repeat for normal annihilation games which would be another 1200 games.
                To retrieve 500 artificats per faction, how many games would that take? your lucky to get 5 a game, if you lose, you get what, 3 at most? over all the game requires close to 3000 matches to finish the achievements and with a player base of casual players whom are not playing regularly, you will never finish them.

                I think the numbers ive put in are fair, it makes the game achievable.

                Thank you BBI for taking my suggestion seriously.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you check the graphs provided by SteamDB you will see that DoK has 100 active players in average and 50 in its lowest. If you play 5 games against each one of those players you complete the achievements with ease.

                  https://steamdb.info/app/281610/graphs/

                  Achievements are challenges, and they are hard to get on purpose. But DoK has some reasonable ones. Want an example of a hardcore achievement? StarCraft 2 multiplayer achievements. 1000 victories as terran in 1v1, 1000 victories as Protoss in 1v1, 1000 victories as Zerg in 1v1 and 1000 victories as random. I'm not talking about games, I'm talking about victories. And there is the same achievements for team games.

                  If the matchmaking works giving you an average winrate of 50% (which happens on StarCraft 2), And you start by playing random. You get 1000 1v1 games victories as random. If 1/3rd of those are equally distributed among the races, you will get 333 games with each race, making:

                  1000 victories as random, 667 as terran, 667 as zerg, 667 as Protoss, for a total of 3000 games. BUT, that is only victories, applying the 50% winrate you will get 6000 games played to get achievements on 1v1.

                  Make that 6000 more matches played for teamgames (in a big stretch, math is wonky at this point due to the combinations of players skill level, your winrate is never 50% on teamgames). But let's speculate, I have 4000 games in my account, and I'm getting closer of the 1000 victories as random, this gives me a 25% winrate due to solo queue as random in 4v4. Then, besides the 6000 1v1 games, I would need 12000 games more to play for a total of 18.000 games (6000 on 1v1 and 12000 on team games).

                  And you are telling me that 500 artifacts is hard to get done? You can't do in a weekend, but they are all feasible.
                  Last edited by Sinistro; 17-01-2017, 07:17 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The steam dB has never been accurate and using it as a reference is stupidity. IF the numbers stated by it were true, I would of found a game at least once by now through auto searching or a custom game made by someone, but I have not, perhaps these are players who are enjoying the single player experience or skirmishing against the cpu? not bothering to try multiplayer because they were unable to find a game or found the achievements overwhelming?

                    How could compare Homeworld Dok to starcraft 2. It is comparing the difference between a grape and a vineyard. I am not talking about quality wise, I am talking about content and player base.
                    I own SC 2, I know perfectly well how long and time consuming the achievements are, however in saying that, the game has tens of thousands of players, it is receiving updates and new content every 2 months or so and has 2 large expansions plus reasonably large dlc's in the form of co op and extra single player missions. A game that size with that kind of player base is expected to have such large achievements because they CAN be achieved.

                    Why are you insisting on leaving the achievements as they are? The game is dying unfortunately and as much as I love the home world universe and their games, the multiplayer base is extremely small and the achievements are not scaled as such. If the game is not doing so well, they will not continue to support it. I have been merely suggesting an idea to encourage players not to give up on it, so that the achievement hunters realise it is achievable to 100% the game and it will bring more players in.

                    At the end of the day BBI will decide what is best for their game, I am just giving logical solutions to what could encourage others to continue to play or buy the game to begin with.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I personally have almost all of the achievements for number of wins in each category. You get them just by playing the game. Hell, you dont even have to play against people, you cab create a game vs the AI in the public lobby and it counts. The achievements are actually comparatively easy to get, as Sinistro has pointed out with his SC2 example. They dont even take long, you just have to play the game. So if the game is something you enjoy, then you dont even have to worry about getting the trophies, it just happens along the way.

                      Furthermore, any development time on the game would be better spent on bug fixes and new content. Not tweaking achievements because of someone whining about trivial nonsense.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I find the game perfectly stable? I have yet to find one glitch that you or any of the others have mentioned?

                        The game is a prequel to an established trilogy, it does not NEED more content, they did a great job with making a great single player campaign/story, a fun skirmish / multiplayer mode and overall a beautiful looking game. The game as it is, is a finished product and I think anyone with half a brain has accepted that.
                        As for the achievements, I am not whining about them, I suggested they make the values smaller to encourage others to finish it or to buy the game to begin, I already stated in an earlier post I have no intention of doing them so before opening your mouth like a keyboard warrior maybe you should do prior reading?
                        How can anyone hope to do the ranked auto matches? if you can no find a game in them? you may have started them early when the game first came out but others who recently just bought the game can no longer achieve them, now is that fair?
                        Last edited by BBI-iain; 23-01-2017, 02:35 PM. Reason: Edited personal attack. Let us build community by respecting others opinions even if they differ from ours.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          RagnaroK While you make a valid point about using public matchmaking lobbies versus AI opponents to work towards certain achievements. I also think that EnderWiggin raises valid issues about how grindy some of the achievements are. In my opinion some achievements should be challenging to achieve, and should not be gotten merely incidentally, however the path to reach them should still be fun or interesting.

                          I think there is definite reason to re-examine the numbers on certain achievements, and while I can't promise they will be changed I don't see an inherent problem with the idea of changing them.

                          And just a friendly reminder that we are here to build a community around a game that we all love. We do that by respecting others opinions, even if they differ from ours. Personal attacks are never acceptable. Keep the fighting to the dunes.

                          Cheers,

                          Iain

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Ian, that is a fair response, achievements inspire people to play the game and work towards goals. Grinding achievements that require that many games especially against an A.I can bore people to no end. I do hope you guys find a suitable solution to making the achievements more feasible and the unachievable ones will be replaced or removed for completion sake.

                            Edit: Also to point out, grinding achievements can be off putting as doing a specific task 10 times in comparison to a 100 times with no changing factor throughout (whether it unlocks a feature /bonus or gives access to something new) becomes increasingly tedious and causes people to give up in favour of something new and fresh.
                            Last edited by EnderWiggin; 23-01-2017, 05:03 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sinistro already pointed you to where the community is for the game. You can find many players there, and arrange many games. So your assessment of the achievements difficulty and time investment are simply wrong. You can easily find people to play ranked matches with. You will likely never get the 5 star platinum 1v1. But too bad. You wont get the Masters top 10 in SC2 either. Join the community, play the game, and get the trophies you care about. Simple as that. I disagree with making them easier than they already are. Maybe the Total Annihilation ones, which are kinda pointless since no one plays that mode. So in that area I can agree. The rest are not even close to "impossible".

                              By more content Im talking about maps, DLC, etc. You know, things that keep the multiplayer community interested in coming back.

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