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DoK: Balancing a Desert

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  • #31
    I think I should make it clear that I have no real qualm with swapping the AS and AR battlefield roles, I simply think your balance is off.

    For the AS first: your proposed version is almost as durable as it was prior. LAV-to-kill time went up by 3.3%. AAV-to-kill time went up by 60%. Carrier chain guns went down by 75%, missiles went up by 35%. While railgun-to-kill time went down by 35%, I fear that the faster AS will be able to pounce and kill them before the rails can stop them. The unit gains mobility, a lot, without sacrificing survivability or damage. Comparing them to your new AR is a little difficult, the AR will clearly win the 1v1 fight, but if the AS is capable of driving up, killing all the collectors, then leaving, it has all ready won. Basically I stand by my claim that what you have done is created a better-than-current AR replacement and priced it less.

    As for the AR, while its AAV relation is weaker LV0, as soon as you hit LV1 armour (a cheap 15 second or so research) It will be exactly as it is now in terms of time to kill, meaning ARs clobbering the AAV no questions asked (unless somehow the slower speed means an AAV can circle kill an AR). But my main worry which I illustrated in the last post is exactly how you put it, a "damage sponge for rail wars". As late game rail wars are quite well balanced as is, I fear for this.

    For some perspective, this is what I would suggest balance wise given your role swap.

    Assault Ship
    5 armour -this stops the LV1 armour upgrade from bringing up back to the situation we are now. It allows time for the other player to react and manage the AS rush.
    900 hp
    100 speed

    Assault Rail
    6 armour
    850 hp -this should alleviate the damage sponge capabilities for such a high damage output unit.
    75 speed.


    • #32
      Originally posted by pbobbert View Post
      LAV-to-kill time went up by 3.3%. AAV-to-kill time went up by 60%. Carrier chain guns went down by 75%, missiles went up by 35%. While railgun-to-kill time went down by 35%, I fear that the faster AS will be able to pounce and kill them before the rails can stop them.
      The new AS takes 4 Carrier missiles to kill down from 6, you also have to look at Soban being able to sunder from carrier and stun with ALMs, Coal's counters are always best when combined, but their individual options are still capable.
      Also the AR "replacement" would be the same cost, not cheaper.

      As far as the rail wars meta there are a couple of dominant factors in rail wars
      Who sees first
      Who hits rails first
      Who has the most rails
      Who has high ground

      Coal have the cheapest Rails with the highest Alpha damage > WIN IN ONE VOLLEY
      Gaal have DPM and superior range(upgraded) but are more expensive > CONTROL THE FIGHT
      Soban have the more durable and versatile rails > WIN IN 2 VOLLEYS

      Just as Assault ships do not impact that the new Assault rails wouldn't but it better balances out Gaal's Rail path options and is defensively minded

      Your suggestions may be valid, but that would require testing, I can say your AR suggestion would make them armour 9 from lv1 armour meaning they would beat AAVs harder via their raw stats, also the max armour gets up to 12, I want the new AR to be vulnerable to over extend and relatively squishy to strikecraft blobs (hence max armour 10), meanwhile they have a 60/40 relationship with AAVs early game, AAVs can use smoke to block LOS and close distance or break engagement safely, if AAVs have numbers they will be able to chew up ARs.

      AAV effective DPM
      vs 4 armour = 3850
      vs 7 armour = 2200
      vs 9 armour = 1100

      high ground and sunder have a significant impact on this and the ARs can no longer escape AAV damage indefinately.


      • #33
        Balancing a desert 1.3 edition V.2

        Coal Baserunner turret
        Weapon burst reduced from 25 to 22

        Missile battery
        AA range increased by 200m

        Armour increased from 10 to 12

        Coal and Soban Battlecruiser
        Increase turn speed and acceleration by 50-100%
        Smoke no longer locks BC in place

        Coal Bomber
        reduce damage fall off

        Soban Carrier
        Lv5 weapons now increases damage by 20% (165 increased to 198)

        Gaalsien Carrier
        Engine system change

        lv0 20/ lv1 35/ lv2 50/ lv3 65/lv4 80/lv5 100

        Assault Rails
        HP increased from 550 to 1100
        armour decreased from 6 to 4
        speed decreased from 100 to 70
        Cost increased from 200CU/35RU to 220CU/40RU

        Assault ships
        HP decreased from 1400 to 900
        Armour increased from 6 to 9
        speed increased from 70 to 100
        AoE size reduced by 10%
        Cost decreased from 220CU/40RU to 200CU/35RU
        Vet 2 bonus changed, now grants +100 hp instead of +200 hp



        Khaan carrier
        Close combat system
        Now grants an additional missile for every power lv

        This is my base line for V2, I intend to use this to build up a more refined version.
        I am aware of a couple suggestion here I fear would be too much or will empower certain rushes too much but having this to work from and refine is important

        Some considerations that I have not put in

        Assault cruiser
        regen ability removed
        Overcharge now provides a heal for a total of 700hp over the duration

        Gaalsien base runner
        Regen ability removed
        Passive regen aura added, is always active but very weak (1 hp per tick and does not stack)

        I would like more feedback on these ideas.


        • #34
          Ok, I want to try a different format

          I have been coming up with various alternatives to balancing some units, each with different focuses and play styles in mind, typically I try to sum up the pros and cons and then pick what I personally feel is the most beneficial.
          However I'd like to put my suggestions side by side and get feedback of which ones are most appealing.

          Assault Ship
          Variant 1; Heavy Strikecraft/Raider
          This is meant as a high mobility damage dealer, the major drawback is its vulnerability to suppression and lack of range while still remaining vulnerable to rails.
          HP reduced from 1400 to 1200
          speed increased from 70 to 100
          AoE reduced by 20-30%
          now affected by AAV suppression

          Variant 2: Suppressor
          This is to focus the Assault ship on its anti-stikecraft role, mitigating its speed by giving it the AAVs suppressing effect, it requires the AoE still be reduced to prevent them shutting down whole strikecraft blobs but it significantly increases Assault ship threat to strikecraft.
          AoE reduced by 30-40%
          attacks now apply Suppression

          Variant 3: Skilled
          Ths is to add more micro and versitility to the Assault ship, providing a shunt move(AR) and EMP blast(HR) so while it effectively gives the AS the tools to achieve the above traits they are cooldown based abilities and may need to be unlocked via tech
          Added shunt move from Assault rail
          Added EMP blast from Heavy rail

          Assault Railgun
          Variant 1: Heavy strikecraft/Marauder
          This is meant as a high speed pin point assault unit, the drawback are its vulnerability to suppression and vulnerability to rails.
          HP increased from 550 to 700
          armour reduced from 6 to 5
          Now affected by AAV supression

          Variant 2:Point defence
          This is intended as a slower defensively focused Assault railgun, providing a durable damage dealer with limited mobility
          HP increased from 550 to 1000
          armour decreased from 6 to 4
          speed reduced from 100 to 70

          Assault Cruiser
          Variant 1: Sword
          This is intended to strip regen and merge it with the over charge ability, this allows a single ability to allow the Assault cruiser to choose between indirectly barraging opponents or using overcharge to advance of them with an extra 700 hp
          Regen removed
          Overcharge now grants 700 healing over its duration

          Variant 2: shield
          This is intended to bolster the Assault cruisers role as a defensive cruiser
          Cost of tactical missile barrage removed
          missiles per barrage reduced from 10 to 4 (effectively reduces barrage damage from 2000 to 800 but reduces deploy time)
          ability cooldowns are all 30s

          These are largely concept ideas and not complete, feedback and suggestions would be appreciated as well as alternatives.